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cmiles8 11 hours ago [-]
Sad to see this canceled and especially at the last minute.
Since DEI imploded most companies won’t touch anything with a 100 ft pole that looks like it might go anywhere near that, and seems like that didn’t help on funding and sponsors.
This always seemed like a good event and only ever heard positive things about it. The controversies and scandals surrounding DEI were not about this, and thus it would appear this may be collateral damage.
pseudosavant 7 hours ago [-]
For context, the first Grace Hopper Celebration was 1994, and had been held for the last 20 consecutive years. Long before DEI.
But when the powers that be are intent to kill off "DEI", and their definition includes anything related to women, this is what happens. Too many business cowards don't want to have problems with their merger, acquisition, IPO, FCC license, etc for supporting celebrating a great American like this, just because she was a woman.
JuniperMesos 7 hours ago [-]
There was definitely gender-based affirmative action benefitting women in 1994 - the term DEI is newer than that (as far as I'm aware), but the concept is definitely not.
According to the Wikipedia article on the event (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper_Celebration_of_Wo...), "In 1994, Anita Borg and Telle Whitney founded the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing. With the initial idea of creating a conference by and for women computer scientists, Borg and Whitney met over dinner, with a blank sheet of paper, having no idea how to start a conference, and started to plan out their vision. The first Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing was held in Washington, D.C., in June 1994, and brought together 500 technical women.".
Having a specific conference for women in computing is definitely a DEI concern; from the very beginning, the entire point of having a formal celebration of Grace Hopper was to be a locus for this female-specific conference. Grace Hopper's importance to this conference is that she was a woman, not that she invented FLOW-MATIC.
carefulfungi 6 hours ago [-]
Grace Hopper graduated from Yale with a PhD in 1933. In 1952, Professor Bessie Lee Gambrill became the first woman at receive tenure at Yale.
Many women mathematicians in computer science worked in the field because they were denied a university career path because of their gender.
As an example of how late gender equality arrived, Olga Taussky-Todd (Caltech) held only a “research associate” title from 1957 until Caltech made her its first female full professor in 1971.
It is not wrong to celebrate a more enlightened world by highlighting its trailblazers and encouraging others to follow their footsteps in breaking barriers.
rayiner 3 hours ago [-]
If I ever got famous, I would hope that people would remember me posthumously by what I did rather than by the fact that I was the "first Bangladeshi" to do whatever. You just mentioned two women professors at Yale and Caltech. I am sure they did amazing things. But your post just says they were women and contains no reference to their actual lives' work.
Geezus_42 7 hours ago [-]
Why do you find it concerning that a conference would focus on women?
jjgreen 7 hours ago [-]
Huh? Someone saying something is a DEI concern does not mean they find it concerning.
JKCalhoun 3 hours ago [-]
"Having a specific conference for women in computing is definitely a DEI concern;"
The phrasing is ambiguous.
A specific conference celebrating women in a field they have been historically underrepresented in is exactly what DEI is about.
So for whom is this a concern? I am guessing for people who are anti-DEI?
Again, the phrasing does not make it very clear.
Geezus_42 5 hours ago [-]
OK, so you tell me what they meant since you're so smart.
datsci_est_2015 6 hours ago [-]
I don’t think they were expressing concern, just the fact.
I read it as a damning indictment against anti-“DEI” fanatics that they’re on the wrong side of history when they push the envelope too far in the direction of “merit-based hiring”, as if DEI was something relatively-recently concocted.
Laughably, in the days before “DEI”, “merit-based hiring” usually equated to “good old boys club”. Based on the industries in which I’ve been involved, it’s still very much “good old boys club”, despite best efforts for DEI to try to make things more merit-based.
Geezus_42 5 hours ago [-]
That's exactly what merit based means. Look at the people picked by the current admin.
rayiner 3 hours ago [-]
Nobody claims that political appointments are "merit based." They're by definition political. But university admissions and employment are supposed to be merit based, not political.
datsci_est_2015 2 hours ago [-]
> But university admissions and employment are supposed to be merit based, not political.
University admissions were not part of the DEI movement, they were part of the affirmative action movement. By conflating the two you’re unfairly grouping things of different types to tear them down together.
Qworg 3 hours ago [-]
The person picking them does? We're told continuously how tremendously smart and wonderful they are.
rayiner 3 hours ago [-]
He’s a carnival barker. That doesn’t change the fact that political appointments are political—they don’t have any relevance to merit-based admissions to universities or job hiring.
In fact, the distinction between political appointments and those other things is critical. In politics, you appoint people to reward your various constituencies. That’s just how politics works. But jobs and universities shouldn’t work that way.
a-french-anon 7 hours ago [-]
Because it undermines claims of equality? Make conferences for everyone, men and women.
And actually, don't give gold stars to people just for being women (as in, would the same person as a man receive even half the attention), this is the worst way to belittle actual achievements coming from them.
Geezus_42 5 hours ago [-]
Men have been getting gold stars for women's achievements for centuries. The discovery of DNA is a perfect example.
6 hours ago [-]
JKCalhoun 3 hours ago [-]
It's hard for me to understand the sense of victimhood I sometimes see from other White men.
rayiner 3 hours ago [-]
Then you're willfully blind. You're talking about a generation of white men who were told growing up that treating people differently based on skin color was the worst thing they could do. But then they found out that the most august institutions in the country were applying wildly different standards to them based on their skin color (https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICH...). And then those institutions went all the way up to the Supreme Court to defend their right to keep doing it.
datsci_est_2015 34 minutes ago [-]
> You're talking about a generation of white men who were told growing up that treating people differently based on skin color was the worst thing they could do.
There’s a linguistic sleight of hand that you’re using here that belies your emotional attachment to this topic.
It’s not that “treating people differently based on skin color” was the worst thing, it was that using skin color as a basis for discrimination, harassment, and even violence was the worst thing you could do.
You’re equating these two things:
- giving children who grew up in zip codes with terrible education outcomes a handicap during college admissions
- lynching
… which I find laughably monstrous and points to a convenient ignorance of history
lovich 1 hours ago [-]
He was talking about the opinion of other white men, not Bangladeshis angry on our behalf
throwawayfifo 6 minutes ago [-]
Don't confuse rational discourse for "victimhood". Finding reasoned discourse difficult to understand and centering it around "victimhood" is ironically an effeminate trait.
Geezus_42 5 hours ago [-]
Most conferences claim to be for everyone, but are really geared towards white cis men.
smolder 6 hours ago [-]
"where is the conference celebrating white men?" -how you sound
pelagicAustral 6 hours ago [-]
He doesnt sounds like that at all. Whatever is left of your brain, get it checked.
Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
It’s not really that simple. Read some of the accounts of the conference from recent years. The conference was falling apart even when companies were sponsoring it. I don’t know about last year’s conference but before that there were a lot of bad experiences and reports that it was turning into more of a job fair than tech conference, but even that wasn’t going well.
It was also getting very expensive. When a conference has a long list of sponsors and tickets also start at $600 minimum, it’s hard to keep that going in a year like this when everyone is dealing with large token spend budgets.
They likely could have survived with a right-sized event but they aimed higher than their budget allowed and hoped the money would appear at the last minute. It did not.
peterfirefly 7 hours ago [-]
Isn't the problem here the Anita Borg foundation and not Grace Hopper?
rayiner 3 hours ago [-]
Before we try to rehabilitate "DEI" let's not forget what it was and is: universities and employers grouping people together based on skin color and treating them differently based on it, by applying wildly different standards.
From 2013-2016, an asian applicant with a 27-29 MCAT/3.4-3.59 GPA had a 21% chance of admission to a U.S. medical school. A hispanic applicant with the same scores had a 60% chance, and a black applicant an 81% chance. A black applicant with a 24-26 MCAT/3.2-3.39 GPA had about the same chance of admission to medical school as an asian applicant with a 30-32 MCAT/3.6-3.79 GPA. (https://www.aei.org/economics/new-chart-illustrates-graphica...)
At Harvard, a white applicant in the top (10th) decile of academic scores had a 15% chance of admission. A hispanic applicant in the top decile had double the odds, and a black applicant more than triple the odds. The white applicant in the top decile had worse odds than a black applicant in the 5th decile. (https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICH...).
JeremyNT 3 hours ago [-]
> Before we try to rehabilitate "DEI" let's not forget what it was and is: universities and employers grouping people together based on skin color and treating them differently based on it, by applying wildly different standards.
One of the major problems with "DEI" as used in the vernacular is that people have trouble agreeing on the meaning of the term.
This results in partisans inventing their own fantastical definitions of it, which they use as bogeymen to encourage misogyny or race baiting.
Manuel_D 1 hours ago [-]
DEI practices I've witnessed at the companies I've worked at include:
* Creating separate interview pipelines for "diverse" candidates, with multiple chances to re-try failed interviews (Asian and white male applicants get one chance).
* Financial penalties when quotas on the basis of race and gender were not met. Of course, the company portrayed them as bonuses rewarded for reaching inclusion milestones, but ultimately a bonus and a penalty are indistinguishable.
* Designating separate headcount pools for women and URM hires.
What was even more concerning was that the people who were privately the biggest proponents of these practices would, like you, publicly condemn the idea that DEI involves discrimination as racist and misogynist.
rayiner 2 hours ago [-]
The confusion is the point. People who want to have racial preferences in admissions and hiring can’t use the phrase “racial preferences,” because it’s always been unpopular. So they used the term “affirmative action” instead. But that also came to be understood as meaning racial preferences. So then they switched to “DEI.” Now they’re throwing that label under the bus too. I suspect within a few years we’ll have a different label.
the_gipsy 3 hours ago [-]
What are the odds of a black applicant for CEO?
rayiner 3 hours ago [-]
It’s the same group of people running the companies and boards as are running Harvard and the medical schools.
ethbr1 2 hours ago [-]
So 2% African American and 11% female? (the current ratios of F500 CEOs for each identifier)
Or presumably ~85% white and male?
rayiner 2 hours ago [-]
Your 85% white figure doesn’t tell you anything. Educated and liberal white people have an out-group preference, which is why universities and medical schools discriminate against white people despite being run by white people.
ethbr1 45 minutes ago [-]
If educated and liberal white people have an out-group preference, why are African Americans and women underrepresented in CEO seats?
Or are you saying corporate boards are uneducated and conservative?
monideas 6 hours ago [-]
> Long before DEI.
This is simply not accurate. It is profoundly inaccurate
sdcfgy 8 hours ago [-]
DEI didn’t implode. It stopped being a valuable marketing exercise for most companies as it wasn’t trending on social media any more.
rurjckci384 8 hours ago [-]
It became a liability - corporates were legally threatened
sdcfgy 5 hours ago [-]
This really didn't happen over here in Europe at all. That was mostly a US thing. Here it just faded out as it couldn't be leveraged.
At our place, it did not influence hiring decisions other than having a formal DEI position in the org which was disposed of almost immediately when it was seen as a cost and not a benefit.
AlecSchueler 4 hours ago [-]
Trump's threats were international and European businesses and media were very much talking about it at the time. Here's two examples from April 2025, the first is in Swedish:
There's a big difference between suing people for prima facie illegal hiring practices and suing people for holding Grace Hopper celebrations. We probably shouldn't conflate them. Your links, as best as I can tell, are about the former sort of activity - hiring or paying people differently on the basis of protected characteristics.
BrandoElFollito 4 hours ago [-]
Probably, but corporations and assimilated organizations will not take the risk.
dofm 3 hours ago [-]
You understand that none of these companies believe the merits of why they are settling?
They are settling because, like the law firms Trump suborned, they didn't want the MAGA rage; especially in the case of Texas, where Trump may (correctly as it goes) think Paxton is a disgusting slug of a man, but still vocally supports him.
The legal system was just the venue. All of this is bullshit corporate spinelessness in the face of threats without merit, especially in firms like Deloitte, who do not want their M&A interfered with.
hmry 18 minutes ago [-]
I don't understand why you're replying to me like that
> You understand that ...?
Yes I do
philipallstar 7 hours ago [-]
Don't know about corporates, but Harvard was sued[0] for DEI-esque discrimination.
Harvard lost due to obvious "anti" racist discrimination. It still seems to discriminate against whites and asians and in favour of blacks, but not as heavily as it used to.
Edit: forgot to to write "and asians".
7 hours ago [-]
throw830373 7 hours ago [-]
Every statement from company officials such as "we only employ women" or "toxic males", can be used as evidence at court. It is very difficult to prove bias from vague sanitized corporate language, direct "activist" statements make proving such bias very easy. For example recent lawsuit with IBM!
bossyTeacher 6 hours ago [-]
> "we only employ women"
But I highly doubt most companies were saying that or implying it. There's more to DEI than having minority quotas. Would DEI practices such as campaigns to encourage more men to go into nursing, midwifery or teaching be targeted too?
ChocolateGod 5 hours ago [-]
> such as campaigns to encourage more men to go into nursing, midwifery or teaching be targeted too?
These aren't illegal and have never been the problem.
Discriminational hiring practices and quotas are, unfortunately DEI activists decided to do these.
bossyTeacher 4 hours ago [-]
> These aren't illegal and have never been the problem.
This is being contested right now. And so, unless you enjoy getting sued, you won't do it.
Just because you agree with the current administration on certain topics, does not mean that you necessarily agree with them on all topics. This is a case of you projecting your opinion based on what your beliefs without checking whether reality matches.
kenjackson 5 hours ago [-]
But the administration is going after those same types of programs when they target women or minorities.
throw830373 4 hours ago [-]
Minorities like men?
kenjackson 3 hours ago [-]
Some do I’m sure. I’m not sure what this has to do with the discussion.
ChocolateGod 5 hours ago [-]
There's a case going through the courts for Red Hat right now where they based managerial bonuses on how diverse their teams were, which reportedly led to them pushing out white males.
Such should rightfully be illegal.
throwawayfifo 2 hours ago [-]
Companies couldn't hide their blatant racism and sexism behind DEI any longer. Corporates were legally threatened for violating Civil Rights laws.
7 hours ago [-]
lynx97 7 hours ago [-]
While cynical, there is a lot of truth to your statement. I wish the activist type would realize that they are actually being used, but it appears there isn't much chance they will ever listen to the old dogs in this game.
sdcfgy 5 hours ago [-]
That is exactly it. A good perspective: the activists were being used.
pluc 6 hours ago [-]
Most US companies. The rest of the world happily doesn't care - and increasingly doesn't do so solely to avoid looking like United Statesmen.
JumpCrisscross 11 hours ago [-]
> seems like that didn’t help on funding and sponsors
Do we know any sponsors who pulled out? Even if that was the case, pulling the plug like this at t minus two weeks speaks to problems internally.
cmiles8 11 hours ago [-]
From what was reported there was a broad reduction of interest from sponsors. Speculation, but the late cancellation very much sounds like there was an effort to find a main sponsor to make up the gap but no corporate was willing to step up and just be the primary sponsor to fund what was needed.
Corporate lawyers now broadly advise their companies against putting any money towards demographic-specific initiatives due to the risks of being sued for discrimination.
Buying a booth at an event would probably be seen as fine but I can only imagine pitches to be a title sponsor were met with “don’t touch this” advice from corporate lawyers.
throw830373 7 hours ago [-]
Post is very clear there is also less interest from individuals to participate. Tech jobs are going through implosion now (for several reasons), and working in tech is not so attractive anymore.
> Unlike past events, this year, both individual registrations
Geezus_42 7 hours ago [-]
Mainly because the people in power believe they'll be able to replace us all any day now.
tgsovlerkhgsel 10 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
usernomdeguerre 10 hours ago [-]
>It's a shame that events like this are affected, but I can't help but be glad that this ended...
Or just canceling scientific research because keywords like "diversity" showed up in the abstract.
mkesper 9 hours ago [-]
As a matter of fact non-white, non-male individuals are disadvantaged in many societies. The consequences of improving the equality of opportunities may sometimes feel like disadvantage to groups that received preferential treatment before. The goal needs to be a levelled playing field for everyone, not denying inequality and punishing those who point out and strive to improve those social injustices.
account42 7 hours ago [-]
Collective punishment or priviledges baced on race or sex is ... racism/sexism, pure and simple. If you want to help disadvantaged people then help those who are disadvantaged. But that's harder and generally requires you to actually show that they are disadvantaged rather than making racist/sexist claims.
Geezus_42 7 hours ago [-]
Or just help everyone and not worry about means testing. It won't be hard to spot the ones taking more than their fair share.
lynx97 7 hours ago [-]
Real equality isn't obtainable. What we are doing currently is just moving things around. The classic case of the vocal minority being louder then another minority. This isn't creating honest fairness, it just highlights certain groups to the detriment of others. Since LGBTQ has become louder, disabled people are being more forgotten again. Accessibility is HARD, so, just cater to LGBTQ and your corporate conscience is magically cleared up. Activists HATE this insight, since they are also blind to the needs of even smaller groups. I know what I am talking about, I am disabled, and I am watching the "landscape" since 35 years.
If your knee jerk reaction is to downvote this, I am not surprised, because, you know, that just underlines my point.
Geezus_42 7 hours ago [-]
It's almost like capitalism is inherently unequal.
lynx97 6 hours ago [-]
Is a bit like with democracy. Its the best system we have... Everything we, as humans, do, will eventually be unfair, because, frankly, humans are just not fair. Sure, a select few have high goals, and might even DTRT... But thats always just a small group. The rest of us will try to take advantage of others, some coniscously, some unconsciously. Humankind will only be fair once it has ended.
Geezus_42 5 hours ago [-]
I don't see how you could conclude that capitalism is the best system when it is the only one the west has tried since the end of feudalism. I think there is still plenty of progress to be made and capitalism creates more negative incentives than anything positive.
georgemcbay 9 hours ago [-]
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression".
This sort of talk will get you downvoted here on HN by the "oppressed".
But as a white male, I agree with you.
DEI "imploded" not because it was unfair, but because a bunch of mediocre baby back bitches can't reckon with the fact that they have always benefited from a ton of privilege.
InsideOutSanta 9 hours ago [-]
This is just my subjective experience, but the only people I've ever seen complain about "DEI" in real life were the most incompetent men I've ever met. These people were clearly aware, on some level, that "DEI" is a threat to them specifically.
throwawayfifo 2 hours ago [-]
This is just my subjective experience, but the only people I've ever seen complain about "anti-DEI" in real life were the most incompetent women I've ever met. These people were clearly aware, on some level, that "anti-DEI" is a threat to them specifically.
theodric 7 hours ago [-]
We had a physical laborer position in the datacenter (lift and shift) get "flagged for diversity (female)" and sit open and unfilled for a year because we were unable to recruit a woman. THIS is the kind of thing that causes problems: some HR analyst pulled the datacenter team stats, saw there were no women working in the grunt team, and decided to try and change that by force. We had LOTS of women in the datacenter group, majority in analysts and coordination, pretty balanced overall, but just none in the grunts. No thoughts were given to why women didn't and likely wouldn't apply for that role. By god, I tried. The few I got to interview noped out once the job responsibilities were made clear. We eventually closed the position unfilled as part of a scaledown/budget giveback.
I'm sure an argument could be made about how the org should seek equity by restructuring the way the team works to eliminate the need for physical strength and replace it with machines, allowing any operative to do the job, but those arguments never seem to come with a budget attached to buy lifts or powered carts to allow us to change the way things have been done in the computing center for 50+ years. Talk is cheap, companies are cheaper. Furthermore, overcoming societal norms such that a woman would choose to apply for that role over a less physically taxing, traditionally male-coded one is likely to be more difficult even than finding budget for machines.
Geezus_42 7 hours ago [-]
That's just your company's HR being morons. Or more likely, they were doing their best to make sure the position didn't get filled because that would cost money.
theodric 5 hours ago [-]
My point was that HR "just being morons" adds fuel to the fire for people pushing anti-diversity narratives. It feels stupid, because it is stupid. It came from a good place (stop shutting women out of jobs) and devolved into the typical corporate "GMD says we have to increase diversity by 10% this year" metric-chasing bureaucratic crapola. It's not even the only similar instance in my career, but I won't be doxxing myself further.
Geezus_42 5 hours ago [-]
Yeah, that's a corporate problem, not a DEI problem. I agree it lends credence to the anti-DEI arguments, but that is due to those people's exiting narrow mindedness and all or nothing thinking.
zombocomvibes 8 hours ago [-]
Just at the administration and say with a straight face that it's meritocracy in action. Hah.
oddIdentities 8 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
account42 7 hours ago [-]
DEI imploded because it's racist and sexist and always was.
Geezus_42 7 hours ago [-]
Tell me how Hegseth and Patel are remotely qualified for their positions.
lynx97 7 hours ago [-]
Your post would be way less hilarious if you refrained from using words like "bitches" in a post arguing for DEI! Derogatory sexist terms don't really help your cuase.
actionfromafar 8 hours ago [-]
Clearly a Fox host is the best military super genius.
kelnos 9 hours ago [-]
The federal government has cancelled funding for a ton of genuinely useful scientific research because "o noes not the DEI monster". (Not to mention just putting the word "diversity" in your proposal has been grounds for rejection, even if it you're talking about, say "wifi antenna diversity".)
But sure, I'm glad now you can say whatever you want in your code comments. Seems like a good trade. /s
account42 7 hours ago [-]
Overcorrection is only a natural reaction to a previously even larger push in the other direction. The correction was sorely needed and wel'll just have to live with a little bit of collateral damage until things normalize.
Geezus_42 7 hours ago [-]
That is idiotic and stems from the false notion that there is some natural equilibrium that will occur.
netsharc 9 hours ago [-]
Profiles of corporate courage...
To Godwin it (with his assumed blessing (1)), I guess this is how BMW, Hugo Boss, Allianz, etc, ended up being involved in the Holocaust.
Reducing funding for something sometimes harmful, which then correspondingly means the funding is not passed on to others, is not the Holocaust.
The utter degrading of the meanings of powerful words might get us there, though.
OneDeuxTriSeiGo 3 hours ago [-]
> is not the Holocaust
Hitler and Nazi Germany did not start with the Holocaust. It was instead the end result. Something can be compared to Hitler or compared to the Nazis or their rhetoric without being literally the Holocaust.
Keep in mind that Hitler and the Nazis took power starting in 1933 but forcing jews to carry identification (i.e. add israel or sara to non-jewish names and add jewish identification marks to paperwork) didn't start until mid-to-late 1938 with Kristallnacht following only months later in Nov 1938.
But in that early period however Nazis began
- gutting research institution
- literally destroying research institutions and research. (ex the famous 1933 book burning picture was from the demolition of the Institute for Sexual Research which studied gender non conformity, intersex traits, and broader topics in the LGBTQIA academic space. Also was where the first transgender sex reassignment surgery took place.)
- expelling academics
- dismantling social programs
- pressuring companies into aligning with state ideological and industrial objectives
- seizing control of, attacking, or privatising domestic and foreign media
- pressuring domestic and foreign entertainment into aligning with Nazi ideological stances
- punishing, oppressing, and expelling political and cultural enemies of the party from the military and civic institutions.
- converting prisons into work camps.
- building out detention facilities/prisons for "illegals" with deplorable conditions with intent to make them suffer as long as possible. These would later become concentration camps and then death camps once crowding became too extreme. And notably this began with the romani population in the early 1930s who Nazis believed to be criminals illegally present within the country.
--------------------
Nazi germany was so much more than just the Holocaust and genocide of the Jewish people. They were part of it however they were the conclusion not the start.
dofm 7 hours ago [-]
> Reducing funding for something sometimes harmful, which then correspondingly means the funding is not passed on to others, is not the Holocaust.
This is a rather boring straw man characterisation of the claim you are replying to. Don’t do this.
philipallstar 7 hours ago [-]
It might be a good idea to mention what the straw man is, rather than just throw the phrase and see if it sticks.
dofm 3 hours ago [-]
The straw man is obvious and you are being disingenuous. The comment you are replying did not at all imply that "[r]educing funding for something sometimes harmful" was a crime on the same level as the Holocaust, or any such thing. It is you making that assertion; your straw man.
It is very obvious, surely, that the comment was a dark, sardonic point about the tendency for "anticipatory obedience" in the Trump era (calling AI "superintelligence" etc).
That is to say, stopping doing something fully legal and uncontroversial out of the fear of reprisals that are ultimately the result of a government (the Trump administration) acting beyond their bounds; there is no reason at all for companies to stop their DEI initiatives when Trump's power is limited to federal institutions, and there is even less reason for them to withdraw sponsorship.
Anticipatory obedience absolutely is part of why major German (and US) firms ended up complicit in the Holocaust.
Companies engaging in anticipatory obedience, taking away programs that are still addressing inequality of opportunity, are on that slippery slope. The last couple of years have made it easier to understand how companies get captured by extremism and illegality.
(Law firms especially; Trump has broken, humiliated, defanged and belittled law firms who took on merit-based cases against him and that is part of why corporations are backing out of DEI initiatives; their law firms cannot be counted on to argue for them)
Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
It doesn’t say anyone pulled out at the last minute.
I think we’re trying to put on a very big conference and hoping that big sponsors would come through at the last minute to make the numbers work.
They’ve had some problems in the recent years. It even made NPR headlines for cops having to show up. Everyone who hasn’t heard of the conference until now is assuming the sponsors are entirely to blame but the conference was not doing well for a couple years.
itake 11 hours ago [-]
yeah, feels like they were hoping something would come through until it didn't
Aurornis 3 hours ago [-]
> Since DEI imploded most companies won’t touch anything with a 100 ft pole that looks like it might go anywhere near that, and seems like that didn’t help on funding and sponsors.
That GHC has had a lot of problems in the past several years. The ticket prices were getting excessive and the conference itself was wandering off course.
Even the current website looks like something that would be hard to justify under most conference travel budget requests: It’s hard to find the actually technical content among the speakers, even though they’re claiming 700+ speakers.
Some of the top selling points are finding employers who are hiring and growing your network. Most companies have tightened up their conference budgets to focus on educational material, not events focus on recruiting people to other companies. Everyone knows conferences will have companies recruiting, but when recruiting is one of the primary selling points it’s more job fair than conference.
The conference has also been problematic on many levels in the past few years. It made news headlines in 2023 for conflict about too many men showing up and arguments about whether or not they were really transgender. The police have been called. They’ve been flirting with political ideologies like Thiel-associated key speakers trying to make the theme of the event encouraging young women to drop out of college. The operations have been a mess from a lot of the reports.
Everyone in these comments is assuming anti-DEI, but everything I heard about the conference was a growing dumpster fire and cash grab for years. I think they finally collapsed when they tried to grow too big after years of bad experiences for their sponsors combined with companies facing increasing AI spend who weren’t interested in spending thousands of dollars to send employees to a conference where recruiting to other jobs was one of the main selling points.
oddIdentities 8 hours ago [-]
> This always seemed like a good event and only ever heard positive things about it.
Shocking.
UncleMeat 4 hours ago [-]
> The controversies and scandals surrounding DEI were not about this, and thus it would appear this may be collateral damage.
This is not the case at all. There have been ample people complaining about this stuff for years. While there are some people who are upset at various policies for other reasons there really is a battery of people who just genuinely don't want to see minority representation in the workplace. Oftentimes these people dress up their true complaints in softer ones but you really can see people like Chris Rufo pushing for a world where minorities are not in positions of power or authority.
I have personally observed people at my workplace (Google) complaining about any funded attendance at Grace Hopper as discrimination against men.
foldr 7 hours ago [-]
>The controversies and scandals surrounding DEI were not about this
Oh but they were about this. This is the common trend of people thinking that "the good ones" are implicitly exempted from their general and sweeping attacks on $THING. C.f. the hardline anti-immigration voter who thinks that the guy who mows their lawn obviously won't be included in the crackdowns. If you attack the whole concept of DEI (as many did – not necessarily you), then you are in fact attacking events celebrating the achievements of women in fields where they're poorly represented.
oddIdentities 6 hours ago [-]
>C.f. the hardline anti-immigration voter who thinks that the guy who mows their lawn obviously won't be included in the crackdowns.
huh, that's pretty bizarre, at least here in Australia (where in recent years immigration has exploded to 2x ~ 3x that of the USA), all the anti-immigration voters are sincerely hoping the guy who mows their lawn grew up across town where his wife's sister now lives.
the crackdowns are for the economic migrants just taking a lifestyle arbitrage
ultimately, immigration into large developed nations is an act of altruism, which, like most things in life, cannot scale indefinitely (much to the chagrin of business owners, women, arts students, etc.) - which is not nice, but is true.
yawpitch 9 hours ago [-]
DEI didn’t implode; it’s not an implosion when it’s shot at from the outside by malicious actors intent on destroying something they don’t understand and can only kneejerk react to out of unreasoning fear.
This isn’t collateral, this was the plan, the planners were just too stupid to see the natural consequences of their plan. See also the price of diesel.
philipallstar 7 hours ago [-]
It was definitely and constantly imploding. It was just kept alive by a giant amount of taxpayer and corporate money.
tempfile 6 hours ago [-]
What does this even mean? Every initiative is kept alive by money. It was very clearly attacked by the Trump administration, and once they started attacking, DEI initiatives stopped. Why else do you think the "implosions", apparently happening all the time, were finally too much to sustain around 2025?
pohl 5 hours ago [-]
The same administration who, just yesterday hired a new press secretary who was very obviously not hired for qualifications but instead for being a blonde.
yawpitch 5 hours ago [-]
[dead]
ChocolateGod 5 hours ago [-]
> Why else do you think the "implosions"
Namely by going too far and breaking the law by becoming discriminatory? So now companies are not going to touch DEI.
DEI killed DEI, not Trump.
tempfile 5 hours ago [-]
When did DEI go too far, and why? I am not aware of any anti-DEI position that thinks it was ever an acceptable practice. It has been resisted since the 80s.
harpersealtako 11 minutes ago [-]
Seems like there is obviously a spectrum of positions here and various people have found themselves calling certain positions "DEI" or "anti-DEI" or "affirmative action" or "racist" depending on which positions they hold and where a particular institution lies on it. For example:
1. A company that hires mainly based on on-paper qualifications (which, due to existing disparities in experience and education, means in practice that they hire fewer historically disadvantaged minorities)
2. A company that, believing that talent or merit is more equitably distributed
among groups than on-paper qualifications may suggest, goes out of their way to interview a greater proportion of historically disadvantaged minority groups than necessarily would naturally apply to their positions (to discover those as-of-yet-unrecognized talents), and tries to hire based on actual merit and ability rather than on-paper qualifications.
3. A company that has the goal of creating a more equitable and diverse workforce with groups that more closely matches their proportions of the population. They spend a lot of time and effort actively recruiting and seeking out employees from underrepresented minority groups, meaning that it is effectively easier for minority groups to get interviews at this company for this position, but still tries to hire based on actual ability and talent once they get to the interview stage
4. A company which, accounting for the disparities in distribution of measurable abilities of groups, tries to hire based on within-group ability rather than between-group ability; for example trying to hire the top 10th percentile of black, or top 10th percentile asian, or top 10th percentile male, rather than top 10th percentile of all applicants in aggregate (which would likely be overrepresented by over-performing groups). This in practice means using a different standard for different groups, but using the within group distribution of talent; they may say they are "considering race/sex/disability as one of many factors they take into account"
5. A company that in practice has an explicit hiring quota based on the race/sex/etc. of applicants, in order to create a more equitable or diverse workforce that matches the relative sizes of those groups in the local population.
6. A company that, in order to reverse historical and current disparities in achievement within society, actively discriminates in the opposite direction as historical trend, with the goal of evening the playing field more quickly.
7. A company that, in order to address historical grievances and grant some amount of justice to victims of discrimination and oppression, actively and purposefully discriminates against privileged majority and overachieving groups, favoring underprivileged and underachieving groups, up to and including reparations for past injustices to remedy current disparities.
I'm pretty sure 1-3 are legal and 4-7 are illegal, but I'm not a lawyer so that's just my guess. Some hardliners might attack 2 as going too far, but somewhere between 3 and 4 is probably the more common point at which anti-DEI people draw their line.
The history is more than a little complicated. I model it as a set of separate overton windows in different institutions that have shifted, widened, and contracted over the last 60 or so years. So in this picture, courts arguably expanded it to 4-6 in the 80s, but have retreated back to around 2-3 since then. Legislature has mostly stayed around 2-3 with a handful of radicals pushing higher or lower with low-to-moderate success. Academia has been around 5-7 since the 70s. Executive has mostly hovered around 3-5 until Trump. Media/popular culture, big shift up to 6-7 in 2014-2021, retreating back to 3-4 now. Also, motte-and-baileys are common here; pro-DEI activists sometimes frame it as something like 2, but often advocate up to 6 or 7 (e.g. "antiracism" in the 2020s peak). anti-DEI activists often say they simply oppose quotas and illegal discrimination (4-7), but in practice sometimes attack even 2-3 as being too much.
yawpitch 5 hours ago [-]
Ahh, the imaginary butthurt of those for whom “discrimination” has only ever been a shorthand for “having to compete on a level playing field”.
Trump (and his ilk) presented a straw man to the dumb, then shot the straw man, without ever thinking of the innocent people standing down range of their target, which included the dumb the whole time.
fnord77 6 hours ago [-]
This had nothing to do with DEI.
It has everything to do with something we're not allowed to criticize.
tastyface 9 hours ago [-]
DEI did not implode; it was heavily and viciously assaulted.
cmiles8 7 hours ago [-]
The implication here that the DEI movement had done nothing wrong is rather naive… it wasn’t all bad, but there was a lot of bad things happening to answer for.
Geezus_42 6 hours ago [-]
I didn't see anyone but you suggest that.
tempfile 6 hours ago [-]
Doesn't seem like that's implied at all. There is no implication about whether it is good or bad actually, but if the fact it was attacked is a bad thing, the only inference is that on balance it did more harm than good.
deadbunny 7 hours ago [-]
Could you elaborate on some of these "bad things"?
cmiles8 7 hours ago [-]
Many DEI programs were highly discriminatory if not outright racist towards certain minorities that were seen as less worthy. Asians and Jewish individuals were often heavily discriminated against via DEI initiatives. The list goes on.
These programs were, in theory, well intentioned but to suggest they did nothing wrong is simply factually incorrect.
krapp 6 hours ago [-]
The true motivations of the anti-DEI movement were obvious when they attacked DEI as a concept rather than just the corruption they claimed existed within the system, and proceeded to do things like blame plane crashes on the hiring of black pilots. There were already laws on the books against hiring discrimination.
Maybe a few naive people in the movement had good intentions but they were clearly dupes for what was at its core a right-wing white supremacist and incel ideology.
And the proof is in the pudding. Has the anti-DEI movment (and current administration) created a truly fair and equitable society that focuses on merit in the absence of gender and race? No. It has created a society in which the contributions of anyone other than white men are systemically attacked, torn down and even erased from the public record.
throwawayfifo 40 minutes ago [-]
>Has the anti-DEI movment (and current administration) created a truly fair and equitable society that focuses on merit in the absence of gender and race? No.
Has the DEI movment (and previous administration) created a truly fair and equitable society that focuses on merit in the absence of gender and race? No.
>It has created a society in which the contributions of anyone other than white men are systemically attacked, torn down and even erased from the public record.
It has created a society in which the contributions of anyone other than white men are systemically exalted, praised and even defended from the public record.
Jason Arday.
randallsquared 5 hours ago [-]
> they attacked DEI as a concept rather than just the corruption they claimed existed
People who crusade against DEI generally think that the concept is corruption, rather than being an unrelated side matter.
> There were already laws on the books against hiring discrimination.
Those are exactly the laws being used to attack DEI practices, though they were by consensus not previously wielded against clear violations that were intended virtuously.
samlinnfer 7 hours ago [-]
Racism
tossandthrow 9 hours ago [-]
You could also say that DEI is easier to defend when human work was more valuable and capital was cheaper.
vkou 8 hours ago [-]
You could say that it was easier to practice before the executive (that routinely hires the dumbest troglodytes - whose only qualification is loyalty to the fuhrer - into positions of power) started a witchhunt against anyone practicing it.
Since the only god our corporatations worship goes by power and money, they all started tripping over themselves to kiss the ring.
tossandthrow 7 hours ago [-]
I should be the last one to defend the existing system.
But IMHO DEI answers the wrong question.
Worthwhile lives does not come from equal access to the hamster wheel.
I am much more pro UBI structures og negative taxation - which are inherently difficult to make descriminatory as there is no personal judgement of the people to receive it.
JuniperMesos 7 hours ago [-]
You probably don't actually want corporations that do intrinsically care about being able to violate federal civil rights and anti-discrimination law, and are willing to lose money and give up influence in order to keep doing so.
vkou 23 minutes ago [-]
My friend, as soon as the felon-in-chief started flexing his muscles, half of them suddenly announced that they wouldn't even support a fucking pride parade.
(Showing up to one, or writing a check to one, is as far as I or anyone else on this planet is aware, is not in violation of any law, as much as MAGA would like it to be.)
There's no need to whitewash or come up with excuses for their cowardice.
account42 7 hours ago [-]
As should all things evil be.
RickJWagner 3 hours ago [-]
Oh my goodness. DEI, what a time it was!
When Jim Whitehurst left Red Hat, he was replaced by Paul Cormier, a complete wokee. Cormier got DEI fever and put in place a big corporate framework, led by a newly crowned VP, complete with staff.
DEI affinity groups were established, by ancestry, sexual orientation, veteran status, physical ability, neurodivergence, etc. The groups got t shirts and air time on company calls. Chatter on internal mailing lists shot upwards, often becoming political firestorms.
CEO Cormier got even crazier and started saying things about maybe not belonging at Red Hat if you didn’t buy into the complete DEI koolaid. The entire corporate leadership was using pronouns in email by then.
I was a member of the military veterans DEI group. I appreciated the t shirts and once got a backpack from a contest. It wasn’t all bad.
Some of it was overreach, and it grated on some people. But there was a glorious counter move in the works.
There was a Jewish guy that didn’t like having DEI thrust upon the company. Assessing his pool of allies, he started some quiet conversations and soon applied for a new DEI subgroup, “Jews and Judeo-Christian values”. The corporate DEI sponsors were caught off guard and approved of the group. I got to go to a DEI conference in Alabama on the company dime, a week long kumbaya fest with nice eats at a snazzy resort. Company funding was good!
A checkpoint on where Red Hat was at the time: the lead spokesperson for the Red Hat Women’s group was a muscular transgender person. That didn’t seem crazy in the context.
As the J&JCV group, we got air time and were able to give voice to our preferred messaging. Our ranks included a gay guy that was drummed out of the LGBT group for his airing of occasional conservative viewpoints. He was as welcome in our community as anyone.
Finally, the DEI leadership took a closer look and decommissioned our J&JCV subgroup. We tried to argue and appeal, and I believe we won the battle of logical arguments, but that was of no consequence. We lost our seat at the table.
It may have seemed bleak, but the winds of change were blowing. CEO Cormier was removed by IBM, after very little time in office.
Organic actions were wearing away at DEI, also. A prominent subgroup leader was taking lengthy ‘mental health breaks’ of week long duration— then boasting about it on mailing lists and encouraging others to do the same! Such things are not sustainable.
As I retired a few years later, DEI was operating at a reasonable level. Minority communities ( notably the excellent and long running Black Red Hatters group ) were bringing appropriate, positive messaging and were demonstrating the true power of diversity. Women’s groups were doing a good job of showcasing women in Tech, etc. I don’t remember anything truly crazy in my last year.
It sounds like this conference had been going downhill for a few years.
grahar64 10 hours ago [-]
Is it because international registrations were down. I know that I am dodging US travel ATM
hunta2097 9 hours ago [-]
I've had the option of a free trip to the US twice in the past year.
I've rejected both due toy sentiment right now.
beej71 11 hours ago [-]
Ugh. A bunch of our students already booked travel and rooms. What a horrible situation all around.
CodeCompost 10 hours ago [-]
What's stopping those students from holding an impromptu memorial?
beej71 13 minutes ago [-]
Nothing, but the Grace Hopper Celebration wasn't primarily about memorializing Grace Hopper.
vineyardmike 9 hours ago [-]
Most students are probably on trips paid for by others. Many of those groups would probably not be keen to fund an itinerary-free trip to Irvine California for a few days. Even if the students were purported to want to impromptu organize.
WastedCucumber 9 hours ago [-]
Organizing
swyx 11 hours ago [-]
were there any hints that this might happen at all? so abrupt
murderfs 9 hours ago [-]
They were advertising tickets three days before they announced everything was cancelled: https://archive.ph/Uimqj
> What happens to my in-person or virtual registration fee?
> Information regarding GHC registration and other financial matters will be communicated to you promptly once we obtain a clearer understanding of AnitaB.org ’s financial condition.
Incredible.
beej71 10 hours ago [-]
We faculty learned about it this evening. :(
roughly 9 hours ago [-]
Some of the best hires I ever made came through GHC - truly a sad day.
gmerc 7 hours ago [-]
You don't want to run afoul of Agent Orange by celebrating a woman so close to his coronation
Geezus_42 6 hours ago [-]
No, please don't make that a thing. They're a great band. They don't deserve that association. :D
pluc 6 hours ago [-]
I have bad news for you
Geezus_42 5 hours ago [-]
Are they MAGA now too?
Silamoth 1 hours ago [-]
Do yourself a favor and search “Agent Orange” on your preferred search engine (Sidenote: I’m trying to avoid using “Google” as a verb). Most people associate that term with the very harmful Vietnam-era herbicide, not the band. The band name may be a reference to the herbicide?
I submitted it, then did a search for the domain. Noticed that there was discussion on a previous submission, thought that was worth pointing out. ChrisArchitect is pretty good at this, but sometimes I do it myself.
I have to admit, I suspected the Secretary of War cancelled the funding
chasil 11 hours ago [-]
For as much COBOL as my (former) coworkers use every day, they should bankroll her day.
aa-jv 4 hours ago [-]
I'm lucky enough to have received one of Grace' nanosecond wires, when .. as a fresh young squib .. I attended one of her lectures and got one handed to me by the Admiral herself.
She was a huge influence on me - as a white male tech nerd - and I have long had a huge interest in women in tech, from Grace to Margaret Hamilton to Jeri Ellsworth and Anouk Wipprecht and more. Jeri's demonstration of her self-made transistors and work rebuilding a tunneling electron microscope were fascinating and rank among the most entertaining things I've seen in a hackerspace this century. Anouks' mad fashiontech excursions are positively exciting. There are many other women technologists who deserve our interest.
So its pretty unfortunate that GCH won't happen this year. I hope there are budding young squibs out there who won't see this as de-motivating with regards to their entry into the technology worlds.
fred_is_fred 1 hours ago [-]
I was there a few years back and it was a total mess. Over run and recruiters being assaulted by students throwing resumes. Completely mismanaged.
Grace Brewster Hopper (née Murray; December 9, 1906 – January 1, 1992) was an American computer scientist, mathematician, and United States Navy rear admiral.[1] She was a pioneer of computer programming. Hopper was the first to devise the theory of machine-independent programming languages, and used this theory to develop the FLOW-MATIC programming language, which was a major influence on COBOL, an early high-level programming language still in use today. She was also one of the first programmers on the Harvard Mark I computer. She is credited with writing the first computer manual, "A Manual of Operation for the Automatic Sequence Controlled Calculator", and is often credited with creating the first compiler.
didn't find anything controversial about her in wikipedia
peterfirefly 6 hours ago [-]
She was the real deal, just massively overhyped for being a woman.
Here is an earlier programming language (never implemented) that was machine independent:
I believe they posted "often credited with creating the first compiler", which is still true in this case. Interesting choice of a counter-example for a few reasons, though.
Aurornis 3 hours ago [-]
The conference was something else. It was a mix of recruiting, networking, and speakers. It had become really expensive and had some problems in recent years.
angry_octet 10 hours ago [-]
I think we can safely assume that all the major sponsors from 2025 pulled out. Any one of them could have carried the whole thing.
Banking & Financial Services
Bank of America - Booth 439
Capital One - Booth 831
Bloomberg - Booth 824
Navy Federal - Booth 426
USAA - Booth 614
Vanguard - Booth 819
Insurance & Financial Tech
Prudential - Booth 526
CHUBB - Booth 344
Voya Financial - Booth 1226
NEXT Insurance - Booth 1227
Manulife - Booth 1122
Tech & Software Companies
Intuit - Booth 422
PayPal - Booth 514
Cloudflare - Booth 533
Wayfair - Booth 342
Xero - Booth 343
Adyen - Booth 605
WEX - Booth 1014
Chewy - Booth 1114
Infoblox - Booth 852
InterSystems - Booth 518
Red Hat - Booth 919
DTCC - Booth 418
Consulting & Professional Services
EY - Booth 1228
E-commerce & Entertainment
Audible - Booth 1251
Automotive & Manufacturing
Rivian - Booth 1022
John Deere - (Location TBD)
Crown Equipment Corporation - Booth 1210
Automotive & Manufacturing
Rivian - Booth 1022
John Deere - (Location TBD)
Crown Equipment Corporation - Booth 1210
Real Estate & Corporate Services
CBRE - Booth 341
Lumen - Booth 345
Retail & Food Services
McDonald's - Booth 339
Healthcare & Medical Technology
Tandem Diabetes Care - Booth 313
Northwestern Medicine - Booth 1214
Mortgage & Real Estate Tech
Rocket - Booth 1211
throw830373 10 hours ago [-]
So they sponsored last year, now you are asking them to pay 50x more?
And if thay paid the whole thing this year, and pulled out next year, th÷pe PR would be 50x worse. Single company cancelled this event in 2027!
Seems like smart move to get out fast!
testfrequency 9 hours ago [-]
You clearly do not work in Tech. Grace Hopper has been around for decades, and companies have understood how important it is for furthering their industries.
This is absolutely the US Gov to blame for its DEI attacks and threats.
throw830373 8 hours ago [-]
> mportant it is for furthering their industries
This was true 10 years ago, today not so much. After several years of cultural revolution, recent crimes, discrimination lawsuits, the entire "women in tech" subject is toxic.
Now it is in implosion phase, where activists will start eating their own (just see the hit list OP published).
Another problem is AI. Common coders will become obsolete (together with "women in tech"). There is no push for more "women in plumbing jobs". Pushing young people into tech (presumably with expensive student loans) is just cruel. Women are not stupid!
The push exists, if you bother looking for it at all.
throw830373 5 hours ago [-]
From your link:
> increasing women’s equal access to union construction jobs
That is not the same as "plumbing jobs". They want nice cushy unionized jobs, not dirty work
folkrav 2 hours ago [-]
There are two links, and they were the first two I found in a 2 minute search, which you could, and should, have done yourself before forming the opinion that women as a whole are not pushing for trades jobs. It's pretty clear at this point that you formed the opinion first.
0xbadcafebee 10 hours ago [-]
Why it may have lacked the funding to continue operations:
"Last year, Women Who Code, a nonprofit that got its start in California, closed because of a lack of funding. AnitaB.org, which brings together women in tech at its annual Grace Hopper Celebration, cut its workforce in 2024 and pointed to a downturn in corporate DEI investments." - "Why Big Tech is pulling back [from DEI efforts]" [2025] (https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-02-15/google-and...)
"I've seen companies who have rebranded their diversity, equity, inclusion as colleague engagement, as listening and empowerment, or and whatever else, I've seen many different iterations, and I think a lot of organizations... [want] to get to a place where they can hide their activity..." ... "Those organizations want to continue doing the work, but they no longer want attention for that work. And so to try to, like, hide it in some ways, and we're in a very unprecedented time right now, nothing is normal right now." ... "Well, basically, corporations interpreted the ADA to say, like, I don't have to offer any... And then you have this three executive orders around DEI, and companies are falling over themselves to comply in advance without any legal mandate for compliance." ... "I just saw a New York Times article that was published a list of a hundred and ninety-nine words that the Trump administration is targeting, words like diversity and inclusion, but also things like bias, stereotypes, underrepresented, underserved, and many more words. They're flagging these words, they're removing them from websites, they're investigating, delaying, denying grants and funding." - Bo Young Lee, President of Research & Advisory for AnitaB.org [2025] (https://voices.berkeley.edu/podcast/dei-not-doa-part-1 | locally AI extracted transcript: https://pastebin.ca/5Mmy5Q6deu)
froh 10 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
mihaaly 8 hours ago [-]
What scares me for the future of my children is that people cheer or blend in, hide, give up. All this repression is helped from multitude of directions, actively or passively, but helped. And the intentional confrontation, seeking it, is increasingly the norm while standing up for it, the protective confrontation is disappearing into the shades, under the grass, not to be seen, go dormant or in some instances, die. This will not end well.
fortran77 12 hours ago [-]
I wonder if people are confused about their repositioning.
An AnitaB.org press release dated April 24, 2025, stated its mission as:
> “to get women in tech skilled, hired, promoted, paid, and funded so that they can thrive, lead, and drive innovation for a more equitable and sustainable future.”
The current mission page instead says:
> “to get our community in tech skilled, hired, promoted, paid, and funded, so they can thrive, lead, and drive innovation for a more impartial and sustainable future.”
It's really hard to tell from their current mission statement who "our community" is.
adamors 12 hours ago [-]
Since DEI became a curse word, you cannot say you do anything for women anymore. I think it's pretty clear who the community still is, but with snowflakes running the government, wording suffers.
kenjackson 11 hours ago [-]
I so hate that trying to help historically disadvantaged groups some extra help is considered bad. Like I get not making a group extra powered, but to help women in tech or research into Black prenatal care just seems absurd.
throw830373 9 hours ago [-]
Lets not forget about female CEOs, they should be making 20x more.
tbrownaw 11 hours ago [-]
Path dependence causes problems, it's better to make sure you can just use current state instead.
kenjackson 11 hours ago [-]
Sorry to be dense. What does that mean?
ithkuil 10 hours ago [-]
I believe the meaning in plain English is:
Let's not focus too much on the past problems that a group of people had, but let's make sure that the situation is improved for that group right now.
Focusing too much on past and try to tip the scale _because_ the past was so bad may lead to bad outcomes today. It may be perceived as a search for grievances and retribution and not the equalization of outcomes that one claims it should seek.
kenjackson 10 hours ago [-]
Got it. I agree. If there is no modern negative consequences then no redress is needed.
ithkuil 8 hours ago [-]
and conversely, if there are modern negative consequences, let's focus on those and fix them!
kenjackson 8 hours ago [-]
100%
zombocomvibes 9 hours ago [-]
Look at the current admin's overt tipping of the scales for white heterosexual Christian (in name only) males to see evidence of DEI in action.
They just don't like it when it's other people
ithkuil 8 hours ago [-]
Yeah it's horrible and blatant.
But they think they can do it because they can spin it as "you did it first".
This just makes the point that there is nothing to gain by framing the issue as a grievance.
There are real prejudices and real systemic disadvantages to fix and while it's important to understand the history of them, I believe we put too much focus on that and less on what we can do to put that past behind us instead of dwelling in it.
I don't think this approach of grievances has done anybody any favour in practice.
vkou 7 hours ago [-]
> But they think they can do it because they can spin it as "you did it first".
They are happy to do whatever they want, and they don't worry about needing false-equivalence precedent to do it.
ithkuil 6 hours ago [-]
sure, but this still doesn't mean we should behave like them.
2muchcoffeeman 11 hours ago [-]
“Snowflake” used to be a pejorative to describe the political left…
JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago [-]
> “Snowflake” used to be a pejorative to describe the political left
Horseshoe theory [1]. Both the far left and right are thin skinned, constantly engrossed in nonsensical semantic debates and accusing their betters of lacking a sense of humor.
These days, Varoufakis talks about "radical centrists".
(It's possisble he doesn't actually have a sense of humour and what we're seeing is pure schadenfreude over, eg, the unsurprising stuff that's happening to the centre-left in Sweden right now. Which happened to Starmer, and has yet to happen to Burnham
But this is maybe only "empirical"--- your wiki link mentions the vulnerability of centrism to elite takeover, and subsequent alienation from the masses. Nod to your "betters")
JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago [-]
> centrism
I don't think this word has meaning anymore in modern Western politics. We have institutionalists.They aren't that different from the animating essence of Trump 1.0–they want to go back to some good old days. Even though the world has since changed. And the old days weren't that good, they're the reason we're where we are now.
And we have various folks pitching reform. The idiots on the far left and the right agree on the broad structure of reform, namely, nothing thoughtful except getting rid of the other guys. But they aren't the only ones pitching reform.
oliculipolicula 10 hours ago [-]
Sure. All instances of "centrist" in the #Modern portion of that wiki could be replaced by "institutionalist".. but it would call for a careful analysis of how institutionalism dominates reform (internally, with respect to general electoral processes)
JumpCrisscross 9 hours ago [-]
> it would call for a careful analysis of how institutionalism dominates reform
Why? Status quo is the default in any state.
wood_spirit 9 hours ago [-]
(What stuff is happening to the center left in Sweden right now?)
nyargh 9 hours ago [-]
Sweden has bloc politics, i.e. no single party has the majority to govern.
The red-green bloc (left, center and greens) won a majority but the center party is playing kingmaker and refusing to let the left party into government. The left party has said from well before the election that they, reasonably, will not vote to support a government which they are not part of.
This has been due to decades of bourgeois / social democrat rat-fucking on policies, most notably disability / sick insurance reforms, after they got the left party's support votes. [1]
There is speculation that the center party would instead support the prior right wing government instead (voting with the extreme-right) - as long as the extreme right stays out of government, despite the extreme right getting all of their policies pushed through anyway. Even going so far as to withhold key votes in parliament until their immigration reforms (removing permanent residency and restricting citizenship, in this case) got passed. [2]
The short of it is that "centrist" parties are just right wing parties in disguise, in that they NEVER support leftist reforms but will happily support the right when it suits upper class economic interests.
Democracy being what it is, can be messy and nobody goes home happy. But the left of the left bloc saw the largest electoral gains in this election, so a move to the left is arguably what a growing portion of the electorate wanted. It was still a very close election, so you could frame it in many ways, but that the green-reds did see the biggest gains is fact.
You make it sound like the center party is playing both sides but as I understand it is not part of that block, and they would be OK with social democrats but not far left in government. What's wrong with that?
nyargh 4 hours ago [-]
Well, they have said they would support the social democrat party leader as prime minister, prior to the election - as did the left and green parties and are (sort of) participating with those parties in negotiating the formation of a new government. And none have the mandates to form a government without each other. So I would say they are in fact part of the same "bloc", in some sense.
However, the left has stated that they rather reasonably won't support a government that they are not part of. The center party on the other hand has said they won't support any government that the left party is in and seem to be open to forming a government (at least not denying when being asked directly) with the right wing parties of the former government, despite that bloc losing the election.
When one party's "red lines" only seem to soften when facing the right, I think that does say something about their true intentions.
wood_spirit 9 hours ago [-]
Aha ok I was wondering when I asked if you meant the internal politics or either social democrats or greens - what I think of as the two center left parties - had been going through an activist far left internal struggle (as is happening to the very separate Green Party in the UK right now).
I would say the center party is center-right.
Lerc 11 hours ago [-]
Snowflake has the weirdest provinance. It was used in Fight Club as a metaphor for individual uniqueness, but because the people who thought Tyler Durden was the coolest thing ever identified with his followers. When Tyler said "You are not snowflakes" they took it to be a positive statement. Snowflake got reinterpreted as a metaphor for fragility.
Ironicly many of those who use the term are not snowflakes in one of those senses and are in the other, but the opposite of what they believe to be true.
n4r9 7 hours ago [-]
> Palahniuk was hardly the first person to use the metaphor. It's the stuff of self-help books and inspirational posters and elementary school assurances.
> In the 1970s snowflake was a disparaging term for a white man or for a black man who was seen as acting white.
> In Missouri in the early 1860s, a "Snowflake" was a person who was opposed to the abolition of slavery—the implication of the name being that such people valued white people over black people.
Tyler Durden, Don Drapper, Patrick Bateman, are all characters that you’re not supposed to want to be like but that “blackpilled” men completely miss the point and worship. There must be a name for this type of character influence. It reminds me of the “torrent nexus” trope but for people.
Lerc 7 hours ago [-]
>There must be a name for this type of character influence.
Well you can spot them with a Rorschach test, perhaps.
randallsquared 5 hours ago [-]
We could all stand to think about this a little Moore.
voganmother42 5 hours ago [-]
The torment nexus, not the torrent nexus(torrent nexus sounds kinda fun)
nwatson 7 hours ago [-]
The term is: antihero
Lerc 6 hours ago [-]
That's the term for the character. I think they were seeking a term to describe those who perceive antiheroes to be heroes.
latexr 6 hours ago [-]
Correct. I wouldn’t really call them anti-heroes, however, as those are still meant to be sympathetic.
To put it less ambiguously, I’m looking for a term for a character which is written to be repulsive but a number of people in the real world misinterpret as a role model.
6 hours ago [-]
gwd 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, and it's being used ironically here. The people who pointed and laughed at those who wanted "safe spaces" and overly sensitive, are overly sensitive about people not like them getting any help. "You called us snowflakes, but you're the ones who have the fragile ego."
slater 11 hours ago [-]
every accusation, confession, etc.
rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 11 hours ago [-]
> you cannot say you do anything for women anymore
Boy oh boy let me tell you about some stuff going on in sports in the latest years...
ura_yukimitsu 7 hours ago [-]
Can you please say what exactly you're implying here and what that has to do with the situation AnitaB is in?
tempfile 6 hours ago [-]
Corrected: you can't say you do anything for women that actually matters.
eddythompson80 7 hours ago [-]
I think they mean women as an abstract concept
akoboldfrying 8 hours ago [-]
Who does AnitaB.org actually support or advocate for?
Their "Our Mission" page refers only to the perfectly vague "our community", never once describing what that is. Nor does their landing page. Their "Our History" page says that the organisation started out to support women in the tech industry, but then describes several name changes, eventually dropping all use of the words "woman" or "women" and switching to the user of "individuals" without explanation or elaboration. It reads like a perfectly choreographed PR "product" designed to maximise deniability of... something. But what?
bossyTeacher 6 hours ago [-]
Your comment is a rhetorical question.
akoboldfrying 5 hours ago [-]
No.
knorker 8 hours ago [-]
The first thing I think about when I hear GHC is the gaslighting. For years I was prodded about that I should go. Men are absolutely welcome. Everyone is welcome, etc.
I never felt that I was actually welcome. And I don't have to be. It's not for me, and it doesn't have to be. I answered women inviting me that no, that wasn't made for me, have fun though.
Then mass layoffs happened, and men who lost their jobs, or looking for their first job, went.
Suddenly everything flipped. Keynote was basically "what the fuck are all you men doing here, taking the space of women?".
Oh, the gaslighting. Glad I never went.
surume 8 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
WangComputers 9 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
zkmon 8 hours ago [-]
There are no isolated phenomena. There are no accidents. It apples to everything. Times are changing. Priorities are changing. The party is coming to an end. People are getting real. It's like the world suddenly progressed past it's childhood or waking from a musical dream.
The courtesy smiles, the pretentive presentations, the sale talk, the polite social customs, the diplomacy, the power due to knowledge, weaponry, currency fixations, - all will face the concrete realities. Water recedes exposing the naked, boisterous economies. The zero-carbon evangelists run to Russia for diesel and to China for minerals or they get extinct, unable to adapt and sitting on their presumptive glory.
Since DEI imploded most companies won’t touch anything with a 100 ft pole that looks like it might go anywhere near that, and seems like that didn’t help on funding and sponsors.
This always seemed like a good event and only ever heard positive things about it. The controversies and scandals surrounding DEI were not about this, and thus it would appear this may be collateral damage.
But when the powers that be are intent to kill off "DEI", and their definition includes anything related to women, this is what happens. Too many business cowards don't want to have problems with their merger, acquisition, IPO, FCC license, etc for supporting celebrating a great American like this, just because she was a woman.
According to the Wikipedia article on the event (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper_Celebration_of_Wo...), "In 1994, Anita Borg and Telle Whitney founded the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing. With the initial idea of creating a conference by and for women computer scientists, Borg and Whitney met over dinner, with a blank sheet of paper, having no idea how to start a conference, and started to plan out their vision. The first Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing was held in Washington, D.C., in June 1994, and brought together 500 technical women.".
Having a specific conference for women in computing is definitely a DEI concern; from the very beginning, the entire point of having a formal celebration of Grace Hopper was to be a locus for this female-specific conference. Grace Hopper's importance to this conference is that she was a woman, not that she invented FLOW-MATIC.
Many women mathematicians in computer science worked in the field because they were denied a university career path because of their gender.
As an example of how late gender equality arrived, Olga Taussky-Todd (Caltech) held only a “research associate” title from 1957 until Caltech made her its first female full professor in 1971.
https://mathematics.caltech.edu/about/prizes-awards/olga-tau...
It is not wrong to celebrate a more enlightened world by highlighting its trailblazers and encouraging others to follow their footsteps in breaking barriers.
The phrasing is ambiguous.
A specific conference celebrating women in a field they have been historically underrepresented in is exactly what DEI is about.
So for whom is this a concern? I am guessing for people who are anti-DEI?
Again, the phrasing does not make it very clear.
I read it as a damning indictment against anti-“DEI” fanatics that they’re on the wrong side of history when they push the envelope too far in the direction of “merit-based hiring”, as if DEI was something relatively-recently concocted.
Laughably, in the days before “DEI”, “merit-based hiring” usually equated to “good old boys club”. Based on the industries in which I’ve been involved, it’s still very much “good old boys club”, despite best efforts for DEI to try to make things more merit-based.
University admissions were not part of the DEI movement, they were part of the affirmative action movement. By conflating the two you’re unfairly grouping things of different types to tear them down together.
In fact, the distinction between political appointments and those other things is critical. In politics, you appoint people to reward your various constituencies. That’s just how politics works. But jobs and universities shouldn’t work that way.
And actually, don't give gold stars to people just for being women (as in, would the same person as a man receive even half the attention), this is the worst way to belittle actual achievements coming from them.
There’s a linguistic sleight of hand that you’re using here that belies your emotional attachment to this topic.
It’s not that “treating people differently based on skin color” was the worst thing, it was that using skin color as a basis for discrimination, harassment, and even violence was the worst thing you could do.
You’re equating these two things:
… which I find laughably monstrous and points to a convenient ignorance of historyIt was also getting very expensive. When a conference has a long list of sponsors and tickets also start at $600 minimum, it’s hard to keep that going in a year like this when everyone is dealing with large token spend budgets.
They likely could have survived with a right-sized event but they aimed higher than their budget allowed and hoped the money would appear at the last minute. It did not.
From 2013-2016, an asian applicant with a 27-29 MCAT/3.4-3.59 GPA had a 21% chance of admission to a U.S. medical school. A hispanic applicant with the same scores had a 60% chance, and a black applicant an 81% chance. A black applicant with a 24-26 MCAT/3.2-3.39 GPA had about the same chance of admission to medical school as an asian applicant with a 30-32 MCAT/3.6-3.79 GPA. (https://www.aei.org/economics/new-chart-illustrates-graphica...)
At Harvard, a white applicant in the top (10th) decile of academic scores had a 15% chance of admission. A hispanic applicant in the top decile had double the odds, and a black applicant more than triple the odds. The white applicant in the top decile had worse odds than a black applicant in the 5th decile. (https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICH...).
One of the major problems with "DEI" as used in the vernacular is that people have trouble agreeing on the meaning of the term.
This results in partisans inventing their own fantastical definitions of it, which they use as bogeymen to encourage misogyny or race baiting.
* Creating separate interview pipelines for "diverse" candidates, with multiple chances to re-try failed interviews (Asian and white male applicants get one chance).
* Financial penalties when quotas on the basis of race and gender were not met. Of course, the company portrayed them as bonuses rewarded for reaching inclusion milestones, but ultimately a bonus and a penalty are indistinguishable.
* Designating separate headcount pools for women and URM hires.
What was even more concerning was that the people who were privately the biggest proponents of these practices would, like you, publicly condemn the idea that DEI involves discrimination as racist and misogynist.
Or presumably ~85% white and male?
Or are you saying corporate boards are uneducated and conservative?
This is simply not accurate. It is profoundly inaccurate
At our place, it did not influence hiring decisions other than having a formal DEI position in the org which was disposed of almost immediately when it was seen as a cost and not a benefit.
* https://riks.se/nyheter/wallenberg%C3%A4gda-ericsson-tonar-n...
* https://swedenherald.com/article/ericsson-ceo-explains-dropp...
Here's one example.
It just silently evaporated here during a "restructure".
DOJ sued Deloitte over DEI programs, they ended up settling for $21.5 million: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/deloitte-pay-215-mi...
Texas Attorney General declared DEI initiatives unconstitutional in a legal opinion: https://www.gibsondunn.com/texas-attorney-general-declares-p...
Several state Attorneys General sent legal threats to 20 major law firms over DEI: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/republican-led-states-deman...
Texas Attorney General warned major banks that DEI programs violate feduciary duty: https://today.westlaw.com/Document/Ibce2fdc5dcec11efb708bbad...
They are settling because, like the law firms Trump suborned, they didn't want the MAGA rage; especially in the case of Texas, where Trump may (correctly as it goes) think Paxton is a disgusting slug of a man, but still vocally supports him.
The legal system was just the venue. All of this is bullshit corporate spinelessness in the face of threats without merit, especially in firms like Deloitte, who do not want their M&A interfered with.
> You understand that ...?
Yes I do
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions_v...
Edit: forgot to to write "and asians".
But I highly doubt most companies were saying that or implying it. There's more to DEI than having minority quotas. Would DEI practices such as campaigns to encourage more men to go into nursing, midwifery or teaching be targeted too?
These aren't illegal and have never been the problem.
Discriminational hiring practices and quotas are, unfortunately DEI activists decided to do these.
This is being contested right now. And so, unless you enjoy getting sued, you won't do it.
Just because you agree with the current administration on certain topics, does not mean that you necessarily agree with them on all topics. This is a case of you projecting your opinion based on what your beliefs without checking whether reality matches.
Such should rightfully be illegal.
Do we know any sponsors who pulled out? Even if that was the case, pulling the plug like this at t minus two weeks speaks to problems internally.
Corporate lawyers now broadly advise their companies against putting any money towards demographic-specific initiatives due to the risks of being sued for discrimination.
Buying a booth at an event would probably be seen as fine but I can only imagine pitches to be a title sponsor were met with “don’t touch this” advice from corporate lawyers.
> Unlike past events, this year, both individual registrations
I suppose you'll leave it up to the reader to determine what it's been replaced with instead. Things like this perhaps? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/white-house-says-us-amb...
If your knee jerk reaction is to downvote this, I am not surprised, because, you know, that just underlines my point.
This sort of talk will get you downvoted here on HN by the "oppressed".
But as a white male, I agree with you.
DEI "imploded" not because it was unfair, but because a bunch of mediocre baby back bitches can't reckon with the fact that they have always benefited from a ton of privilege.
I'm sure an argument could be made about how the org should seek equity by restructuring the way the team works to eliminate the need for physical strength and replace it with machines, allowing any operative to do the job, but those arguments never seem to come with a budget attached to buy lifts or powered carts to allow us to change the way things have been done in the computing center for 50+ years. Talk is cheap, companies are cheaper. Furthermore, overcoming societal norms such that a woman would choose to apply for that role over a less physically taxing, traditionally male-coded one is likely to be more difficult even than finding budget for machines.
But sure, I'm glad now you can say whatever you want in your code comments. Seems like a good trade. /s
To Godwin it (with his assumed blessing (1)), I guess this is how BMW, Hugo Boss, Allianz, etc, ended up being involved in the Holocaust.
(1) https://www.alternet.org/godwins-law-trump-hitler/
The utter degrading of the meanings of powerful words might get us there, though.
Hitler and Nazi Germany did not start with the Holocaust. It was instead the end result. Something can be compared to Hitler or compared to the Nazis or their rhetoric without being literally the Holocaust.
Keep in mind that Hitler and the Nazis took power starting in 1933 but forcing jews to carry identification (i.e. add israel or sara to non-jewish names and add jewish identification marks to paperwork) didn't start until mid-to-late 1938 with Kristallnacht following only months later in Nov 1938.
But in that early period however Nazis began
- gutting research institution
- literally destroying research institutions and research. (ex the famous 1933 book burning picture was from the demolition of the Institute for Sexual Research which studied gender non conformity, intersex traits, and broader topics in the LGBTQIA academic space. Also was where the first transgender sex reassignment surgery took place.)
- expelling academics
- dismantling social programs
- pressuring companies into aligning with state ideological and industrial objectives
- seizing control of, attacking, or privatising domestic and foreign media
- pressuring domestic and foreign entertainment into aligning with Nazi ideological stances
- punishing, oppressing, and expelling political and cultural enemies of the party from the military and civic institutions.
- converting prisons into work camps.
- building out detention facilities/prisons for "illegals" with deplorable conditions with intent to make them suffer as long as possible. These would later become concentration camps and then death camps once crowding became too extreme. And notably this began with the romani population in the early 1930s who Nazis believed to be criminals illegally present within the country.
--------------------
Nazi germany was so much more than just the Holocaust and genocide of the Jewish people. They were part of it however they were the conclusion not the start.
This is a rather boring straw man characterisation of the claim you are replying to. Don’t do this.
It is very obvious, surely, that the comment was a dark, sardonic point about the tendency for "anticipatory obedience" in the Trump era (calling AI "superintelligence" etc).
That is to say, stopping doing something fully legal and uncontroversial out of the fear of reprisals that are ultimately the result of a government (the Trump administration) acting beyond their bounds; there is no reason at all for companies to stop their DEI initiatives when Trump's power is limited to federal institutions, and there is even less reason for them to withdraw sponsorship.
Anticipatory obedience absolutely is part of why major German (and US) firms ended up complicit in the Holocaust.
Companies engaging in anticipatory obedience, taking away programs that are still addressing inequality of opportunity, are on that slippery slope. The last couple of years have made it easier to understand how companies get captured by extremism and illegality.
(Law firms especially; Trump has broken, humiliated, defanged and belittled law firms who took on merit-based cases against him and that is part of why corporations are backing out of DEI initiatives; their law firms cannot be counted on to argue for them)
I think we’re trying to put on a very big conference and hoping that big sponsors would come through at the last minute to make the numbers work.
They’ve had some problems in the recent years. It even made NPR headlines for cops having to show up. Everyone who hasn’t heard of the conference until now is assuming the sponsors are entirely to blame but the conference was not doing well for a couple years.
That GHC has had a lot of problems in the past several years. The ticket prices were getting excessive and the conference itself was wandering off course.
Even the current website looks like something that would be hard to justify under most conference travel budget requests: It’s hard to find the actually technical content among the speakers, even though they’re claiming 700+ speakers.
Some of the top selling points are finding employers who are hiring and growing your network. Most companies have tightened up their conference budgets to focus on educational material, not events focus on recruiting people to other companies. Everyone knows conferences will have companies recruiting, but when recruiting is one of the primary selling points it’s more job fair than conference.
The conference has also been problematic on many levels in the past few years. It made news headlines in 2023 for conflict about too many men showing up and arguments about whether or not they were really transgender. The police have been called. They’ve been flirting with political ideologies like Thiel-associated key speakers trying to make the theme of the event encouraging young women to drop out of college. The operations have been a mess from a lot of the reports.
Everyone in these comments is assuming anti-DEI, but everything I heard about the conference was a growing dumpster fire and cash grab for years. I think they finally collapsed when they tried to grow too big after years of bad experiences for their sponsors combined with companies facing increasing AI spend who weren’t interested in spending thousands of dollars to send employees to a conference where recruiting to other jobs was one of the main selling points.
Shocking.
This is not the case at all. There have been ample people complaining about this stuff for years. While there are some people who are upset at various policies for other reasons there really is a battery of people who just genuinely don't want to see minority representation in the workplace. Oftentimes these people dress up their true complaints in softer ones but you really can see people like Chris Rufo pushing for a world where minorities are not in positions of power or authority.
I have personally observed people at my workplace (Google) complaining about any funded attendance at Grace Hopper as discrimination against men.
Oh but they were about this. This is the common trend of people thinking that "the good ones" are implicitly exempted from their general and sweeping attacks on $THING. C.f. the hardline anti-immigration voter who thinks that the guy who mows their lawn obviously won't be included in the crackdowns. If you attack the whole concept of DEI (as many did – not necessarily you), then you are in fact attacking events celebrating the achievements of women in fields where they're poorly represented.
huh, that's pretty bizarre, at least here in Australia (where in recent years immigration has exploded to 2x ~ 3x that of the USA), all the anti-immigration voters are sincerely hoping the guy who mows their lawn grew up across town where his wife's sister now lives.
the crackdowns are for the economic migrants just taking a lifestyle arbitrage
ultimately, immigration into large developed nations is an act of altruism, which, like most things in life, cannot scale indefinitely (much to the chagrin of business owners, women, arts students, etc.) - which is not nice, but is true.
This isn’t collateral, this was the plan, the planners were just too stupid to see the natural consequences of their plan. See also the price of diesel.
Namely by going too far and breaking the law by becoming discriminatory? So now companies are not going to touch DEI.
DEI killed DEI, not Trump.
1. A company that hires mainly based on on-paper qualifications (which, due to existing disparities in experience and education, means in practice that they hire fewer historically disadvantaged minorities)
2. A company that, believing that talent or merit is more equitably distributed among groups than on-paper qualifications may suggest, goes out of their way to interview a greater proportion of historically disadvantaged minority groups than necessarily would naturally apply to their positions (to discover those as-of-yet-unrecognized talents), and tries to hire based on actual merit and ability rather than on-paper qualifications.
3. A company that has the goal of creating a more equitable and diverse workforce with groups that more closely matches their proportions of the population. They spend a lot of time and effort actively recruiting and seeking out employees from underrepresented minority groups, meaning that it is effectively easier for minority groups to get interviews at this company for this position, but still tries to hire based on actual ability and talent once they get to the interview stage
4. A company which, accounting for the disparities in distribution of measurable abilities of groups, tries to hire based on within-group ability rather than between-group ability; for example trying to hire the top 10th percentile of black, or top 10th percentile asian, or top 10th percentile male, rather than top 10th percentile of all applicants in aggregate (which would likely be overrepresented by over-performing groups). This in practice means using a different standard for different groups, but using the within group distribution of talent; they may say they are "considering race/sex/disability as one of many factors they take into account"
5. A company that in practice has an explicit hiring quota based on the race/sex/etc. of applicants, in order to create a more equitable or diverse workforce that matches the relative sizes of those groups in the local population.
6. A company that, in order to reverse historical and current disparities in achievement within society, actively discriminates in the opposite direction as historical trend, with the goal of evening the playing field more quickly.
7. A company that, in order to address historical grievances and grant some amount of justice to victims of discrimination and oppression, actively and purposefully discriminates against privileged majority and overachieving groups, favoring underprivileged and underachieving groups, up to and including reparations for past injustices to remedy current disparities.
I'm pretty sure 1-3 are legal and 4-7 are illegal, but I'm not a lawyer so that's just my guess. Some hardliners might attack 2 as going too far, but somewhere between 3 and 4 is probably the more common point at which anti-DEI people draw their line.
The history is more than a little complicated. I model it as a set of separate overton windows in different institutions that have shifted, widened, and contracted over the last 60 or so years. So in this picture, courts arguably expanded it to 4-6 in the 80s, but have retreated back to around 2-3 since then. Legislature has mostly stayed around 2-3 with a handful of radicals pushing higher or lower with low-to-moderate success. Academia has been around 5-7 since the 70s. Executive has mostly hovered around 3-5 until Trump. Media/popular culture, big shift up to 6-7 in 2014-2021, retreating back to 3-4 now. Also, motte-and-baileys are common here; pro-DEI activists sometimes frame it as something like 2, but often advocate up to 6 or 7 (e.g. "antiracism" in the 2020s peak). anti-DEI activists often say they simply oppose quotas and illegal discrimination (4-7), but in practice sometimes attack even 2-3 as being too much.
Trump (and his ilk) presented a straw man to the dumb, then shot the straw man, without ever thinking of the innocent people standing down range of their target, which included the dumb the whole time.
It has everything to do with something we're not allowed to criticize.
These programs were, in theory, well intentioned but to suggest they did nothing wrong is simply factually incorrect.
Maybe a few naive people in the movement had good intentions but they were clearly dupes for what was at its core a right-wing white supremacist and incel ideology.
And the proof is in the pudding. Has the anti-DEI movment (and current administration) created a truly fair and equitable society that focuses on merit in the absence of gender and race? No. It has created a society in which the contributions of anyone other than white men are systemically attacked, torn down and even erased from the public record.
Has the DEI movment (and previous administration) created a truly fair and equitable society that focuses on merit in the absence of gender and race? No.
>It has created a society in which the contributions of anyone other than white men are systemically attacked, torn down and even erased from the public record.
It has created a society in which the contributions of anyone other than white men are systemically exalted, praised and even defended from the public record.
Jason Arday.
People who crusade against DEI generally think that the concept is corruption, rather than being an unrelated side matter.
> There were already laws on the books against hiring discrimination.
Those are exactly the laws being used to attack DEI practices, though they were by consensus not previously wielded against clear violations that were intended virtuously.
Since the only god our corporatations worship goes by power and money, they all started tripping over themselves to kiss the ring.
But IMHO DEI answers the wrong question.
Worthwhile lives does not come from equal access to the hamster wheel.
I am much more pro UBI structures og negative taxation - which are inherently difficult to make descriminatory as there is no personal judgement of the people to receive it.
(Showing up to one, or writing a check to one, is as far as I or anyone else on this planet is aware, is not in violation of any law, as much as MAGA would like it to be.)
There's no need to whitewash or come up with excuses for their cowardice.
When Jim Whitehurst left Red Hat, he was replaced by Paul Cormier, a complete wokee. Cormier got DEI fever and put in place a big corporate framework, led by a newly crowned VP, complete with staff.
DEI affinity groups were established, by ancestry, sexual orientation, veteran status, physical ability, neurodivergence, etc. The groups got t shirts and air time on company calls. Chatter on internal mailing lists shot upwards, often becoming political firestorms.
CEO Cormier got even crazier and started saying things about maybe not belonging at Red Hat if you didn’t buy into the complete DEI koolaid. The entire corporate leadership was using pronouns in email by then.
I was a member of the military veterans DEI group. I appreciated the t shirts and once got a backpack from a contest. It wasn’t all bad.
Some of it was overreach, and it grated on some people. But there was a glorious counter move in the works.
There was a Jewish guy that didn’t like having DEI thrust upon the company. Assessing his pool of allies, he started some quiet conversations and soon applied for a new DEI subgroup, “Jews and Judeo-Christian values”. The corporate DEI sponsors were caught off guard and approved of the group. I got to go to a DEI conference in Alabama on the company dime, a week long kumbaya fest with nice eats at a snazzy resort. Company funding was good!
A checkpoint on where Red Hat was at the time: the lead spokesperson for the Red Hat Women’s group was a muscular transgender person. That didn’t seem crazy in the context.
As the J&JCV group, we got air time and were able to give voice to our preferred messaging. Our ranks included a gay guy that was drummed out of the LGBT group for his airing of occasional conservative viewpoints. He was as welcome in our community as anyone.
Finally, the DEI leadership took a closer look and decommissioned our J&JCV subgroup. We tried to argue and appeal, and I believe we won the battle of logical arguments, but that was of no consequence. We lost our seat at the table.
It may have seemed bleak, but the winds of change were blowing. CEO Cormier was removed by IBM, after very little time in office.
Organic actions were wearing away at DEI, also. A prominent subgroup leader was taking lengthy ‘mental health breaks’ of week long duration— then boasting about it on mailing lists and encouraging others to do the same! Such things are not sustainable.
As I retired a few years later, DEI was operating at a reasonable level. Minority communities ( notably the excellent and long running Black Red Hatters group ) were bringing appropriate, positive messaging and were demonstrating the true power of diversity. Women’s groups were doing a good job of showcasing women in Tech, etc. I don’t remember anything truly crazy in my last year.
I believe things are going to be fine.
It sounds like this conference had been going downhill for a few years.
I've rejected both due toy sentiment right now.
> What happens to my in-person or virtual registration fee?
> Information regarding GHC registration and other financial matters will be communicated to you promptly once we obtain a clearer understanding of AnitaB.org ’s financial condition.
Incredible.
I forgot to do a search first.
She was a huge influence on me - as a white male tech nerd - and I have long had a huge interest in women in tech, from Grace to Margaret Hamilton to Jeri Ellsworth and Anouk Wipprecht and more. Jeri's demonstration of her self-made transistors and work rebuilding a tunneling electron microscope were fascinating and rank among the most entertaining things I've seen in a hackerspace this century. Anouks' mad fashiontech excursions are positively exciting. There are many other women technologists who deserve our interest.
So its pretty unfortunate that GCH won't happen this year. I hope there are budding young squibs out there who won't see this as de-motivating with regards to their entry into the technology worlds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper
Grace Brewster Hopper (née Murray; December 9, 1906 – January 1, 1992) was an American computer scientist, mathematician, and United States Navy rear admiral.[1] She was a pioneer of computer programming. Hopper was the first to devise the theory of machine-independent programming languages, and used this theory to develop the FLOW-MATIC programming language, which was a major influence on COBOL, an early high-level programming language still in use today. She was also one of the first programmers on the Harvard Mark I computer. She is credited with writing the first computer manual, "A Manual of Operation for the Automatic Sequence Controlled Calculator", and is often credited with creating the first compiler.
didn't find anything controversial about her in wikipedia
Here is an earlier programming language (never implemented) that was machine independent:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankalk%C3%BCl
https://codewithkate.squarespace.com/blog/the-complete-grace...
Tech Giants & Major Players
Amazon - Booth 751
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Finance & Trading Firms
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DE Shaw - Booth 410
IMC - Booth 1051
Walleye Capital - Booth 1052
Apollo Global Management - Booth 647
Five Rings - Booth 310
Cboe - Booth 952
Banking & Financial Services Bank of America - Booth 439
Capital One - Booth 831
Bloomberg - Booth 824
Navy Federal - Booth 426
USAA - Booth 614
Vanguard - Booth 819
Insurance & Financial Tech Prudential - Booth 526
CHUBB - Booth 344
Voya Financial - Booth 1226
NEXT Insurance - Booth 1227
Manulife - Booth 1122
Tech & Software Companies Intuit - Booth 422
PayPal - Booth 514
Cloudflare - Booth 533
Wayfair - Booth 342
Xero - Booth 343
Adyen - Booth 605
WEX - Booth 1014
Chewy - Booth 1114
Infoblox - Booth 852
InterSystems - Booth 518
Red Hat - Booth 919
DTCC - Booth 418
Consulting & Professional Services EY - Booth 1228
E-commerce & Entertainment Audible - Booth 1251
Automotive & Manufacturing Rivian - Booth 1022
John Deere - (Location TBD)
Crown Equipment Corporation - Booth 1210
Automotive & Manufacturing Rivian - Booth 1022
John Deere - (Location TBD)
Crown Equipment Corporation - Booth 1210
Real Estate & Corporate Services CBRE - Booth 341
Lumen - Booth 345
Retail & Food Services McDonald's - Booth 339
Healthcare & Medical Technology Tandem Diabetes Care - Booth 313
Northwestern Medicine - Booth 1214
Mortgage & Real Estate Tech Rocket - Booth 1211
And if thay paid the whole thing this year, and pulled out next year, th÷pe PR would be 50x worse. Single company cancelled this event in 2027!
Seems like smart move to get out fast!
This is absolutely the US Gov to blame for its DEI attacks and threats.
This was true 10 years ago, today not so much. After several years of cultural revolution, recent crimes, discrimination lawsuits, the entire "women in tech" subject is toxic.
Now it is in implosion phase, where activists will start eating their own (just see the hit list OP published).
Another problem is AI. Common coders will become obsolete (together with "women in tech"). There is no push for more "women in plumbing jobs". Pushing young people into tech (presumably with expensive student loans) is just cruel. Women are not stupid!
The push exists, if you bother looking for it at all.
> increasing women’s equal access to union construction jobs
That is not the same as "plumbing jobs". They want nice cushy unionized jobs, not dirty work
"Last year, Women Who Code, a nonprofit that got its start in California, closed because of a lack of funding. AnitaB.org, which brings together women in tech at its annual Grace Hopper Celebration, cut its workforce in 2024 and pointed to a downturn in corporate DEI investments." - "Why Big Tech is pulling back [from DEI efforts]" [2025] (https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-02-15/google-and...)
"I've seen companies who have rebranded their diversity, equity, inclusion as colleague engagement, as listening and empowerment, or and whatever else, I've seen many different iterations, and I think a lot of organizations... [want] to get to a place where they can hide their activity..." ... "Those organizations want to continue doing the work, but they no longer want attention for that work. And so to try to, like, hide it in some ways, and we're in a very unprecedented time right now, nothing is normal right now." ... "Well, basically, corporations interpreted the ADA to say, like, I don't have to offer any... And then you have this three executive orders around DEI, and companies are falling over themselves to comply in advance without any legal mandate for compliance." ... "I just saw a New York Times article that was published a list of a hundred and ninety-nine words that the Trump administration is targeting, words like diversity and inclusion, but also things like bias, stereotypes, underrepresented, underserved, and many more words. They're flagging these words, they're removing them from websites, they're investigating, delaying, denying grants and funding." - Bo Young Lee, President of Research & Advisory for AnitaB.org [2025] (https://voices.berkeley.edu/podcast/dei-not-doa-part-1 | locally AI extracted transcript: https://pastebin.ca/5Mmy5Q6deu)
An AnitaB.org press release dated April 24, 2025, stated its mission as:
> “to get women in tech skilled, hired, promoted, paid, and funded so that they can thrive, lead, and drive innovation for a more equitable and sustainable future.”
The current mission page instead says:
> “to get our community in tech skilled, hired, promoted, paid, and funded, so they can thrive, lead, and drive innovation for a more impartial and sustainable future.”
It's really hard to tell from their current mission statement who "our community" is.
Let's not focus too much on the past problems that a group of people had, but let's make sure that the situation is improved for that group right now.
Focusing too much on past and try to tip the scale _because_ the past was so bad may lead to bad outcomes today. It may be perceived as a search for grievances and retribution and not the equalization of outcomes that one claims it should seek.
They just don't like it when it's other people
But they think they can do it because they can spin it as "you did it first".
This just makes the point that there is nothing to gain by framing the issue as a grievance.
There are real prejudices and real systemic disadvantages to fix and while it's important to understand the history of them, I believe we put too much focus on that and less on what we can do to put that past behind us instead of dwelling in it. I don't think this approach of grievances has done anybody any favour in practice.
They are happy to do whatever they want, and they don't worry about needing false-equivalence precedent to do it.
Horseshoe theory [1]. Both the far left and right are thin skinned, constantly engrossed in nonsensical semantic debates and accusing their betters of lacking a sense of humor.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
These days, Varoufakis talks about "radical centrists".
(It's possisble he doesn't actually have a sense of humour and what we're seeing is pure schadenfreude over, eg, the unsurprising stuff that's happening to the centre-left in Sweden right now. Which happened to Starmer, and has yet to happen to Burnham
But this is maybe only "empirical"--- your wiki link mentions the vulnerability of centrism to elite takeover, and subsequent alienation from the masses. Nod to your "betters")
I don't think this word has meaning anymore in modern Western politics. We have institutionalists.They aren't that different from the animating essence of Trump 1.0–they want to go back to some good old days. Even though the world has since changed. And the old days weren't that good, they're the reason we're where we are now.
And we have various folks pitching reform. The idiots on the far left and the right agree on the broad structure of reform, namely, nothing thoughtful except getting rid of the other guys. But they aren't the only ones pitching reform.
Why? Status quo is the default in any state.
The red-green bloc (left, center and greens) won a majority but the center party is playing kingmaker and refusing to let the left party into government. The left party has said from well before the election that they, reasonably, will not vote to support a government which they are not part of.
This has been due to decades of bourgeois / social democrat rat-fucking on policies, most notably disability / sick insurance reforms, after they got the left party's support votes. [1]
There is speculation that the center party would instead support the prior right wing government instead (voting with the extreme-right) - as long as the extreme right stays out of government, despite the extreme right getting all of their policies pushed through anyway. Even going so far as to withhold key votes in parliament until their immigration reforms (removing permanent residency and restricting citizenship, in this case) got passed. [2]
The short of it is that "centrist" parties are just right wing parties in disguise, in that they NEVER support leftist reforms but will happily support the right when it suits upper class economic interests.
Democracy being what it is, can be messy and nobody goes home happy. But the left of the left bloc saw the largest electoral gains in this election, so a move to the left is arguably what a growing portion of the electorate wanted. It was still a very close election, so you could frame it in many ways, but that the green-reds did see the biggest gains is fact.
1. https://arbetet.se/2026/09/21/sjukforsakringen-forklarar-var...
2. https://www.thelocal.se/20261012/beer-strike-and-contract-br...
However, the left has stated that they rather reasonably won't support a government that they are not part of. The center party on the other hand has said they won't support any government that the left party is in and seem to be open to forming a government (at least not denying when being asked directly) with the right wing parties of the former government, despite that bloc losing the election.
When one party's "red lines" only seem to soften when facing the right, I think that does say something about their true intentions.
I would say the center party is center-right.
Ironicly many of those who use the term are not snowflakes in one of those senses and are in the other, but the opposite of what they believe to be true.
> In the 1970s snowflake was a disparaging term for a white man or for a black man who was seen as acting white.
> In Missouri in the early 1860s, a "Snowflake" was a person who was opposed to the abolition of slavery—the implication of the name being that such people valued white people over black people.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/the-less-lovely-sid...
Well you can spot them with a Rorschach test, perhaps.
To put it less ambiguously, I’m looking for a term for a character which is written to be repulsive but a number of people in the real world misinterpret as a role model.
Boy oh boy let me tell you about some stuff going on in sports in the latest years...
Their "Our Mission" page refers only to the perfectly vague "our community", never once describing what that is. Nor does their landing page. Their "Our History" page says that the organisation started out to support women in the tech industry, but then describes several name changes, eventually dropping all use of the words "woman" or "women" and switching to the user of "individuals" without explanation or elaboration. It reads like a perfectly choreographed PR "product" designed to maximise deniability of... something. But what?
I never felt that I was actually welcome. And I don't have to be. It's not for me, and it doesn't have to be. I answered women inviting me that no, that wasn't made for me, have fun though.
Then mass layoffs happened, and men who lost their jobs, or looking for their first job, went.
Suddenly everything flipped. Keynote was basically "what the fuck are all you men doing here, taking the space of women?".
Oh, the gaslighting. Glad I never went.
The courtesy smiles, the pretentive presentations, the sale talk, the polite social customs, the diplomacy, the power due to knowledge, weaponry, currency fixations, - all will face the concrete realities. Water recedes exposing the naked, boisterous economies. The zero-carbon evangelists run to Russia for diesel and to China for minerals or they get extinct, unable to adapt and sitting on their presumptive glory.